[Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list

Discussion:

Jude DaShiell

2016-05-10 17:53:22 UTC

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a
remote server and have been totally blind from birth.

My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has
built an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install
that distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This
happens several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part
of the kde community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of
competition. From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if
jovie may be ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the
effort out to get it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest
commercial linux distro with kde would appear to be a natural for this
especially since speakup access got broken by linux kernel developer
intern a couple years ago.

--

Olaf Schmidt-Wischhöfer

2016-05-10 20:41:43 UTC

Permalink

I have now subscribed you manually.

Does someone on this list know about such an ISO file?

Post by Jude DaShiell
Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a
remote server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has
built an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install
that distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This
happens several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part
of the kde community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of
competition. From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if
jovie may be ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the
effort out to get it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest
commercial linux distro with kde would appear to be a natural for this
especially since speakup access got broken by linux kernel developer
intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility

--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

Jeremy Whiting

2016-05-10 20:45:09 UTC

Permalink

Jude,

I hate to disappoint but here's the reality. Jovie isn't a
screenreader so couldn't be used to make it so a blind person could
use a kde/plasma desktop out of the box. To do that you would need a
distribution with kde/plasma and also orca screen reader. I haven't
heard of such a distribution, but it should be possible.

thanks,
Jeremy

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a remote
server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has built
an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install that
distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This happens
several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of the kde
community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of competition.
From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may be
ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to get
it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro with
kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup access
got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility

Jude DaShiell

2016-05-11 09:54:02 UTC

Permalink

So kde didn't come up with its own screen reader, this is good to know.
What Apple did with VoiceOver in this context may be useful to describe.
In 2008 I purchased a Mac Mini which turned out to have the older chips
in it that would not upgrade beyond snow leopard. It came with OSX10.4
Tiger not installed. I by myself hooked the computer up and tried to
get it working not knowing the operating system was not already
installed. I was by myself at the time too. I put one dvd in the combo
drive and it got ejected promptly. The package came with two dvd's so I
was down to my last card. I put the second DVD in the drive and it
started spinning up. I waited and suddenly VoiceOver came on and
started asking questions which I answered with the keyboard. When I
finished I had to customize an operating system for accessibility I
found a website for that later and got four years good use out of that
computer until it was struck by lightning. Such an experience has
always been and I suspect will always be impossible with Microsoft
Windows which is why I won't have it on any equipment I own and use; I
can't reinstall it by myself on a bare metal machine. What triggered
VoiceOver wasn't anything I did, VoiceOver got triggered because I
didn't answer a question that appeared on the screen within an expected
time interval. I am curious, could an installation disk go out and get
orca if needed install orca and activate it in the event a would-be
installer failed to answer a question within an expected time interval?

Date: Tue, 10 May 2016 16:45:09
Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list
Jude,
I hate to disappoint but here's the reality. Jovie isn't a
screenreader so couldn't be used to make it so a blind person could
use a kde/plasma desktop out of the box. To do that you would need a
distribution with kde/plasma and also orca screen reader. I haven't
heard of such a distribution, but it should be possible.
thanks,
Jeremy

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a remote
server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has built
an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install that
distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This happens
several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of the kde
community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of competition.
From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may be
ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to get
it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro with
kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup access
got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility

Jeremy Whiting

2016-05-11 15:33:31 UTC

Permalink

Jude,

Post by Jude DaShiell
So kde didn't come up with its own screen reader, this is good to know.

Well some kde developers came up with kaccessible, which is a screen
reader that only works with Qt based applications. Orca seems to work
better since it can read the ui of both Qt based and GTK+ based
applications. Orca is supposed to "just work" with many applications,
however there may be some bugs in Qt itself or KDE libraries that give
it some trouble. I don't think it gets as much testing as it needs
either. It's a classic chicken and egg problem. Not enough people test
orca with kde/plasma, so bugs with that setup aren't reported as much
as bugs with other setups. Because it's not as well tested, there
aren't as many people trying it out either.

Post by Jude DaShiell
What
Apple did with VoiceOver in this context may be useful to describe.
In 2008 I purchased a Mac Mini which turned out to have the older chips in
it that would not upgrade beyond snow leopard. It came with OSX10.4 Tiger
not installed. I by myself hooked the computer up and tried to get it
working not knowing the operating system was not already installed. I was
by myself at the time too. I put one dvd in the combo drive and it got
ejected promptly. The package came with two dvd's so I was down to my last
card. I put the second DVD in the drive and it started spinning up. I
waited and suddenly VoiceOver came on and started asking questions which I
answered with the keyboard. When I finished I had to customize an operating
system for accessibility I found a website for that later and got four years
good use out of that computer until it was struck by lightning. Such an
experience has always been and I suspect will always be impossible with
Microsoft Windows which is why I won't have it on any equipment I own and
use; I can't reinstall it by myself on a bare metal machine. What triggered
VoiceOver wasn't anything I did, VoiceOver got triggered because I didn't
answer a question that appeared on the screen within an expected time
interval. I am curious, could an installation disk go out and get orca if
needed install orca and activate it in the event a would-be installer failed
to answer a question within an expected time interval?

I was surprised the last time I installed debian that there was an
install option in the bootup to install with speech help. It was
terminal based, probably using speakup, but worked pretty well. I
can't remember if it ended up with a gui environment at the end or
not, but probably could.

BR,
Jeremy

Post by Jude DaShiell

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a remote
server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has built
an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install that
distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This happens
several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of the kde
community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of competition.
From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may be
ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to get
it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro with
kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup access
got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility

Jude DaShiell

2016-05-11 20:11:11 UTC

Permalink

Right now, to the best of my knowledge no kde-plasma install iso exists
with orca also already on it. If I find an iso like that, I'll be sure
to make sure kaccessible is also installed since orca is lately having
some trouble with some of the newer qt stuff. I'm retired now so have
time to do bug testing so could help out. It's possible a sighted
friend I have could build me an iso and mail it to me when he has time.
He isn't retired yet.

Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 11:33:31
Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list
Jude,

Post by Jude DaShiell
So kde didn't come up with its own screen reader, this is good to know.

Post by Jude DaShiell

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a remote
server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has built
an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install that
distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This happens
several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of the kde
community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of competition.
From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may be
ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to get
it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro with
kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup access
got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility

Frederik Gladhorn

2016-06-08 14:23:19 UTC

Permalink

Hello Jude,

there are several ways of getting accessibility in KDE and Plasma improved. I
would recommend starting with a distribution that is accessible and installing
two desktops in parallel - get some Gnome or Unity and install the kde desktop
at the same time.
This way you should end up with a working login manager and there you can
choose which system to log in to. Being able to test individual applications
in the working environment is probably an advantage, although applications
should generally work in either environment.
There is one caviat: when using different styles, applications may behave
differently depending on the desktop environment in use.

Once you have the ability to log in to Plasma with a system that has a screen
reader installed and ready, it should in theory be able to activate Orca - on
recent Plasma releases it should activate using the same shortcut as in Gnome
sessions. I wouldn't be surprised if this got broken again - I'm not sure.
You may need sighted assistance - check in System Settings, Desktop Behavior,
Accessibility. There is a checkbox to enable Orca in the Screen Reader tab.

Assuming that works, some parts of Plasma should be accessible, but there is
much left to be desired - the system tray and network config is for example
completely inaccessible as far as I know - mostly due to keyboard shortcuts
and missing hints.

I don't usually find the time to really work on these issues, but good reports
and a defined plan of what is the most burning stuff to fix would certainly be
helpful. It's also an option to blog about the progress or lack thereof and
hope to get some more people involved.

Frederik

Post by Jude DaShiell
Right now, to the best of my knowledge no kde-plasma install iso exists
with orca also already on it. If I find an iso like that, I'll be sure
to make sure kaccessible is also installed since orca is lately having
some trouble with some of the newer qt stuff. I'm retired now so have
time to do bug testing so could help out. It's possible a sighted
friend I have could build me an iso and mail it to me when he has time.
He isn't retired yet.

Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 11:33:31
Subject: Re: [Kde-accessibility] can't subscribe to list
Jude,

Post by Jude DaShiell
So kde didn't come up with its own screen reader, this is good to know.

Post by Jude DaShiell
What
Apple did with VoiceOver in this context may be useful to describe.
In 2008 I purchased a Mac Mini which turned out to have the older chips in
it that would not upgrade beyond snow leopard. It came with OSX10.4 Tiger
not installed. I by myself hooked the computer up and tried to get it
working not knowing the operating system was not already installed. I was
by myself at the time too. I put one dvd in the combo drive and it got
ejected promptly. The package came with two dvd's so I was down to my last
card. I put the second DVD in the drive and it started spinning up. I
waited and suddenly VoiceOver came on and started asking questions which I
answered with the keyboard. When I finished I had to customize an
operating system for accessibility I found a website for that later and
got four years good use out of that computer until it was struck by
lightning. Such an experience has always been and I suspect will always
be impossible with Microsoft Windows which is why I won't have it on any
equipment I own and use; I can't reinstall it by myself on a bare metal
machine. What triggered VoiceOver wasn't anything I did, VoiceOver got
triggered because I didn't answer a question that appeared on the screen
within an expected time interval. I am curious, could an installation
disk go out and get orca if needed install orca and activate it in the
event a would-be installer failed to answer a question within an
expected time interval?

Post by Jude DaShiell

Captcha prevented that from happening since I use lynx and do so on a remote
server and have been totally blind from birth.
My reason for having wanted to subscribe was to find out if anyone has built
an iso with kde and with jovie set up so a blind user could install that
distro using jovie and have kde come up talking afterward. This happens
several times with gnome but I've heard of no efforts on the part of
the
kde
community to make a kde-accessible linux distribution by way of competition.
From what I recently read on the jovie wiki it appears as if jovie may be
ready to handle this level of work if someone had put the effort out to get
it done since 2012. Slackware being the oldest commercial linux distro with
kde would appear to be a natural for this especially since speakup access
got broken by linux kernel developer intern a couple years ago.
--
_______________________________________________
kde-accessibility mailing list
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-accessibility